DSC, Everyone is entitled to an opinion...that's what everything is on here anyway.

In response to Christianity not having a place......

"Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy"

There's nothing Holy about war...War is fought 247 365. Unless of course your talking about blowing the holy hell out of something....but then I never thought that made any sense.

"though shall not kill"
self explanatory.

So you see, it does not take a scholar to see that there is no place for Christianity in War.

If it will make you fel better I could revise 18racr's opinion by saying we should drop leafletts so they would have fair warning to leave. And another clarification, no one is calling for the murder of women and children, but collateral damage will occur. War is Hell Sir.

Merry Christmas to you also...but that's out of place here.

I could be wrong but I think I remember a story in the bible about God sending armys against other armys to destroy them, not give them hugs and food,, could be wrong and maybe I should reread the story but I think thats basically how it went..


Here's one story line from bible,, ask yourself Dave , how christian like would this be to you? I think a few innocent people suffered didnt they?

When the Israelites fell into idolatry, God caused other nations to defeat and enslave them (2:11-15).

and another,,
God sends plagues on the Egyptians to convince Pharaoh to let the Israelites go. At the same time God hardens Pharaohs heart. There are plagues of frogs, lice, flies, death of livestock, boils, and hail, locusts and darkness. All the plagues wreak havoc on the Egyptians but don’t affect the Jews. Pharaoh only gets more stubborn. Finally, the Passover occurs. God vows to kill the firstborn of every family in Egypt. If the children of Israel would put the blood of a male lamb without blemish on their doorposts, God would pass over them and not kill their firstborn. All of the households in Egypt suffer the loss of one.

dscEvents wrote on 12/13/09 at 11:57am:



Becareful,,,,The Bible says to give him the other cheek,, your values may be tested someday,, if mine are tested I will ask for forgiveness ,Dave I will never think we should not do what is needed to insure the safety of my fellow Americans, even the ones that voted for Obama, even idiots need protection and if it means inocent people might die to protect my country from the others then so be it,,drop some papers warning of future death because the bad guys are mixed among them and then let them have it, If you think they wouldnt hand your butt over to the bad guys so you can be slaughtered then you my friend are sadly mistaken, 98% would hand your butt over in a heart beat, another one my friends will ship out on the 21st, I pray God looks over him and everyone else over there, but he knows if he is captured he will be killed,,but he has to be polite and make sure nobody calls the guy they capture a single bad name, THATS THE WAR THEY HAVE TO FIGHT,,,I say kill them all and let God sort them out,,just my own opinion,,but will never change it

dscEvents wrote on 12/13/09 at 9:55am:


#######

Actually the quote is "those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither".

That is the point of nearly every arguement I make concerning the erosion of the God given liberties bestowed upon us through the U.S. Constitution.

Our founders realized that our individual sovereignty was a God given, sacred blessing.

Jesus referred to it in Rev.3:11. "Hold fast to what you have, that no one may steal your crown."  

Your crown of sovereignty as in free to make your own choices, responsible for the actions and consequences of those choices and beholding to no man or government entity unless those choices or freedoms infringe on anothers.

P.S. The 6th Commandment states thou shall not murder.
One could open another debate on war killings. Murder or defense?
Defense for the ones on Gods side, murder for the other?
Not an issue that will ever be solved, at least not by man at this level of existence.

jr07 wrote on 12/13/09 at 8:10pm:


Jr07,

Wouldn't you agree that Jesus might not be referring to a material crown, but a spiritual one?  I think he meant for us to hold fast to our values, so that no one should "steal" our path to heaven. But I could be wrong.

But it is clear that you all seem to be saying that Christianity is something you can reject in a crisis, then just ask forgiveness.

But my understanding of scripture requires repentance before forgiveness.

A preacher once told me a story about a man that would use prostitutes every week, then come to church every Sunday to receive his forgiveness. When the preacher asked the man why he wouldn't stop seeing prostitutes, the man answered, "Why should I change my behavior when I can come here and be forgiven each time I stray from Christianity?"

The preacher explained that forgiveness is not meant as a "get out of jail free card". If your heart doesn't accept the teachings of Jesus, HE WILL KNOW and your forgiveness will not be granted.

That may be of concern to those of you who are hell bent(bad choice of words) on getting a chance to kill, then simply asking for forgiveness. It might not work out that well if you never had an intention of following Jesus in the first place.

Yes, following the rules of Christianity can be difficult in difficult times. But if it was easy, then everyone would go to heaven.

dsc

dscEvents wrote on 12/13/09 at 11:04pm:

As for "we were attaked first." The US sends a lot of death and destruction around the world for the US and its allies gains.
The politicians wont let you win a war but they start plenty of them. So maybe its our politicians that we need to be going after.

Jr07,

Actually I was making that very point that you made in your reply to my post about material things. But you had seemed to use the scripture to imply that defending a material crown justified pre-emptive violence.

I was pointing out that material things are not what Jesus was trying to protect. You seem to agree with my point at the same time you are disagreeing with it.


And Duane,

If you (and 18rcr) truly don't know why we are supposed to "turn the other cheek", then there's no point debating the issue. But here it is from the Big Guy Himself:

   You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
   —Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

   But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
   —Luke 6:27-31. NIV

These seem pretty clear to me. I'm not sure why this is such a controversy. I can understand if you disagree with the words of Jesus regarding non-violence in our modern and dangerous world. But at least be honest and say, "I don't believe in that passage".

Some people try to deny that Jesus had a very specific point of view on non-violence. Others make excuses and justifications to violate His teachings. But He was pretty clear throughout the New Testament about His views of non-violence and pacifism.

But some think that when the going gets tough, it's okay to reject His teachings.

My point is that when the going gets tough, that is the time when it is MOST IMPORTANT to remember His teachings.

BTW, I'm not always successful in that effort, but I try.

dsc

Camaro,

Where have I passed judgment? Is discussing what is in the Bible "passing judgment"? Is questioning someones understanding of scripture "passing judgment"?

I have NEVER called into question anyone's "good faith" beliefs about the Bible. Having a disagreement IS NOT PASSING JUDGMENT. Educating people as to what is ACTUALLY in the Bible is not passing judgment.

If I have EVER implied that anyone here is a "bad Christian", then that would be wrong, but I have been pretty careful in my words not to do that. I have never told anyone they are "going to Hell" for their beliefs. I only question some peoples understanding (or lack thereof) of the Christian doctrine.

So I take offense to your baseless accusations and misquotes.

Also, I NEVER accused the military of a desire of "getting a chance to kill". I was talking about 18rcr's statement that he would kill women and children in order to protect himself. If you are going to attack me about something I have said, at least have the integrity to get your facts straight!

I completely stand behind my beliefs about Christianity and will not be silenced by the likes of Camarokid or anyone else who believes that Christianity is a "part-time" faith. Or one that believes that disagreement with ones beliefs is "passing judgment".

I'll let God do the judging. He is much wiser that a mere mortal like myself.

dsc

I have to admit it. I love that film!

"Never get out of the boat!"

I've read a good portion of the bible. I have faith in humanity. I taught my sons right from wrong while they were growing up, and I didn't teach it from the bible. It was all about doing the right thing...period. My sons turned out to be respectful, honest, young men. My youngest is a Marine. He's been wanting to serve his country since he was 15. I was hesitant at 1st. thought, but signed his papers in 07, so he could pretrain before going to boot camp. He is ready to fulfill his duty, and I truly hope he doesn't read Miranda Rights to any of these terrorists a-holes, and shoots them where they sit or stand. Also, I might mention, he wants to continue service to his country or community by working for the FBI or being a Police officer. I couldn't be more proud.