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Arizona Late Models (Read 4149 times)
pinky
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Arizona Late Models
01/08/12 at 10:17am
 
Just wondering what the status of the SWDRA late models are in Arizona?  Don't see any LM races scheduled at Canyon...haven't heard anything about Casa Grande...and only one LM race scheduled at Cocopah...and that is billed as a California series.  Where does someone have to go to see LM racing in Arizona?  USA?? ET? Seems like an opportunity for Cocopah Speedway to pick up a LM race or two.
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #1 - 01/08/12 at 11:06am
 
I think that everything is still up in the air on what is going to happen with the late model series in Arizona. I have not heard if anyone is going to take over the SWDRA since Joey has stepped down. I have been trying to get ahold of a couple of the tracks to try and add a couple of Championship Late Model Association DIRTcar Series races in Arziona to go along with the 6 races that we will have in New Mew Mexico in Texas, but I haven't had much luck. I really hope that someone can do something to keep the late model class going in Arizona because it was really starting to gain momentum at the end of the 2011 season.
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #2 - 01/08/12 at 12:06pm
 
For sure...there was great racing at Canyon last fall...good car count  and a lot of competitive cars.  Didn't get a chance to see them at USA.
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #3 - 01/08/12 at 12:24pm
 
I think that the SWDRA had more winners in 2011 then they have ever had in one season. Everytime that any of the drivers from Arizona come and race with CLMA DIRTcar Series they are very tough to beat. I hope that we can get a couple of races in Arizona so they have a place to keep racing and hopefully they will come race with us in New Mexico, Texas, and Las Vegas in 2012.
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #4 - 01/08/12 at 9:14pm
 
Yes It is a Bummer for Local Late Model Drivers; Owners & Fans in AZ!! In 2012 We Would Probably Average 22-25 Cars Per Race! We (22B) Took 2011 Off, but We WILL be Racing in 2012.......Just May Be More Expensive and Fewer Races.....Nobody Will "Hold Me Hostage". Would Love to Race at Canyon, Tucson, Casa Grande or ET.......but I Guess in Todays World.....AZ Late Model Driver / Owners are Like NASCAR Sponsorships......Track Promoters Expect the AZ Late Model Drivers / Owners to Pay for the Purse?????? In My Small Business, I Have to Go & Get My Customers.....I Do NOT EXPECT My Internal Customers (Racers) to Bring in the External (Fans) Customers.....I Know, I Know....I just Think Backwards.....JK, but not Really...
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #5 - 01/08/12 at 9:31pm
 
We are Planning to Run the "Copper on Dirt" at Tucson in Late February......But I Do Not See it on Chris Kearns Schedule for the WCLMS??.....It is on USA's website.......Been Down that Road Before.......That is Probably Because he "Sees the Handwriting on the Wall"??? Most of the AZ Late Model Guys do Not want to "Stir the Pot".....But Man, WHEN are the Fanatical (Mean this in a Good Way) Late Model Fans Like Pushin; Scott Domine & Phx21 Gonna Bring this "touchy" Subject Up, Or anyone else for that Matter???? It Really is GREAT, to go to the WWS, Ernie Mincy started (Winter Thaw) and Benji & Kevin Have Continued (WWS) & Have Done an OUTSTANDING Job of Promoting it; Track Preparation; EXCELLENT Races, etc, etc. !!! But WHY IN THE WORLD are KEVIN; BENJI & JONAH (ET), NOT RUNNING THE LATE MODELS????? Our Purse is ONLY $5800....Our Guys Average 4 People Per Car in the Pits (Paerkers, Williams, Manka Teams usually have Double that); Usually about 22 Cars Per Race; that is $3080 at the Back Gate (22 X 4 X $35 Pit Pass), that Leaves 181 Fans at $15 per Person to BREAK EVEN.......Come On....Gonna Tell Me that They Cannot Make Money on the Late Models????? That is why You have Excellent Concessions, Beer Sales, Sell Billboards, ADVERTISE......
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #6 - 01/08/12 at 9:42pm
 
No....I Dont Drink or Do any Drugs.....Just Frustrated.....By Our Local Track Promoters.....Like a Previous Poster Mentioned....Multiple Feature Winners.......2011 Points Battle Goes Down to the Wire.....AND Ends in a TIE for the Championship!!! Stuff Dream Seasons are Made of, Very Talented Up & Coming Drivers, Ricky Thornton Jr......Awesome Talent, Lonnie Parker Jr, Anthony Madrid, Banghart & Belcher Jr.....AWESOME Racing in 2011....Sprint Cars Probably do Bring in a Few More Fans, but I do Believe that Their Purse is about $2,000 to $3,000 Higher???? Drivers / Owners Coming Back into the Fold; Ron Pyle / Jeremy Thornton; Karl Tipton; Bruce Duckett (Me); Randy Anderson, a Few Others...Makes No Sense!! But IF, they even have ANY races....Guys NEED to KNOW so that they WILL Have Their Cars READY to RACE!!
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #7 - 01/08/12 at 10:21pm
 

As a fan, I was just wanting to take the "wait and see what happens" approach. (Trust me, Phx21 and myself has had some conversation about this topic.) I guess I have not posted anything about this subject, because this entire board has more negative feedback than I can stand at times...IMO, I feel if I just come on here a say how f'd up I think this entire situation is, and make a bunch of accusations without having any (potential) solutions to the problems, puts me in the same boat as a whole bunch of people on this board.

At the present time, the Series has no Leadership, no title Sponsor, and no where to race. It's a big pill to swallow...I will leave it at that for now.

Speaking of up and comers, please do not forget Bud Grossenbacher. The kid was getting better and better each time I saw him run last year. Was really lookin forward to seeing him continue to improve and possibly take one down next season....
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #8 - 01/09/12 at 2:39am
 
Yes....I Know what You Mean on Negativity! At Times in the Past I Have Been that Way Myself....But it is a New Year & New Beginnings!!

I also agree with you the 81B was Fantastic this past year, I Believe he had a couple of 2nd places and a few 3rd places....only a matter of time until he wins a Feature!!

"At the present time, the Series has no Leadership, no title Sponsor, and no where to race. It's a big pill to swallow...I will leave it at that for now."

Well Pushin.....Not to Be Negative.....But, I know, I know, There is THAT word, BUT. Well in 2011, I Thought that We had Pretty Good Leadership "Total Seal & Joey". A National Company Sponsoring Us; Great Points Payout; A Guy that can Be Very Diplomatic Dealing with Track Promoters.....THE LEADERSHIP & TITLE SPONSOR WAS, WAS, WAS, THERE (yes meant to put that 3 times)!!

But When You Own a National Company (Big Business) & You Love to Race Late Models, BUT......You Keep Running into a BRICK WALL.....Trying to Schedule Races with the THREE Major Track Promoters in AZ and they WON'T Call You Back......What Do you Do.....You, Me, Others (Joey Did) May Just Throw Up Their Hands and Say Forget the "Politics".....I'm outta here......Lifes Too Short for this BS!!

Problem is......for the Up & Comers, like Bud or the Lower Buck Guys that Cannot or Do Not Want to Travel 4-10 Hours to Race....It hurts them and Late Models in AZ!!

Can You Imagine, Pushin, If You had a "Small Business" (a racetrack is just that, sometimes big business) and You did not Return Your Customers Calls and They Stopped Coming to Your "Place of Business"......Well MOST "Small Businesses" would go "OUT of BUSINESS".

I Really Do Not Get on This Board Unless, I am VERY PASSIONATE about a Subject. I REALLY, REALLY Want to Stay Positive, But You CANNOT ALWAYS "Sugar Coat" Life! I Too, for the Past Two Months have been Trying to Take the "Wait & See" Approach.....But Times a Runnin Short....Got To Get Our Machines Ready!!!

The 98; 6 & 5 (won championship) are already for sale on Racing Junk & Here.......Take the "wait & see" approach too long.....May Not Be anything to SEE???

Problem is......Guys sell their cars, Dont have them Ready, "Go On with Life" and then IF, the Promoters Schedule us, we have 8-10 Cars.....then the Drivers / Owners will get the BLAME for letting Late Models "Die Off in AZ" becuase of Low Car Counts.....We HAVE the CAR COUNTS NOW!!!

Make NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT.......IF LATE MODELS DIE IN AZ......IT WILL SQUARELY BE ON BENJI & KEVIN or it Could Go the Other Way (trying to be Positive) KEVIN & BENJI will be REMEMBERED as GUYS THAT KEPT THE LATE MODELS ALIVE IN AZ......Too Soon to Know.....We Will Just Have to "WAIT & SEE"??

Pushin, You, Phx21, Scott Domine, Mud Slinger, Steve Curtis, Chris Kearns, Chet and Several Others. I enjoy reading your Posts and I Want to Personally Thank You (especially You & Phx21) for Being Loyal, Die Hard Fans!!! I will be at the WWS on the First Sunday and then the Whole last weekend (wish I could make all of them). It Looks Like it is Going to be an Incredible Show.....Like ScottDomine said....cant wait for it to get here already!!

Bruce 22B

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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #9 - 01/09/12 at 6:14am
 
22B, believe me when I say that I am as upset as you (maybe not quite as I don't have a small fortune invested in a late model) that this class is in jeopardy of not having a season.  Late models, without a doubt, are my personal favorite class to watch, as well as my families.  We rarely, if ever, miss a race in AZ.  It is most unfortunate now, as I and others have watched the series grow and be quite successful. Adding up and coming drivers (Grossenbacher) and a number of different winners really made last year exciting.  I was really hoping this trend would continue, and possibly it still could.  

However, I'm not quite sure what me personally, or Pushin, or Phx can do.  I do talk to Benji quite often and most definitely will be this weekend, but that's not saying much.  I'm hoping as much as anyone that someone takes the ball and runs w/ it!!!!!

See ya'll this weekend!
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #10 - 01/09/12 at 7:13am
 
Racer22B wrote on 01/08/12 at 9:31pm:
We are Planning to Run the "Copper on Dirt" at Tucson in Late February......But I Do Not See it on Chris Kearns Schedule for the WCLMS??.....It is on USA's website.......Been Down that Road Before.......That is Probably Because he "Sees the Handwriting on the Wall"??? Most of the AZ Late Model Guys do Not want to "Stir the Pot".....But Man, WHEN are the Fanatical (Mean this in a Good Way) Late Model Fans Like Pushin; Scott Domine & Phx21 Gonna Bring this "touchy" Subject Up, Or anyone else for that Matter???? It Really is GREAT, to go to the WWS, Ernie Mincy started (Winter Thaw) and Benji & Kevin Have Continued (WWS) & Have Done an OUTSTANDING Job of Promoting it; Track Preparation; EXCELLENT Races, etc, etc. !!! But WHY IN THE WORLD are KEVIN; BENJI & JONAH (ET), NOT RUNNING THE LATE MODELS????? Our Purse is ONLY $5800....Our Guys Average 4 People Per Car in the Pits (Paerkers, Williams, Manka Teams usually have Double that); Usually about 22 Cars Per Race; that is $3080 at the Back Gate (22 X 4 X $35 Pit Pass), that Leaves 181 Fans at $15 per Person to BREAK EVEN.......Come On....Gonna Tell Me that They Cannot Make Money on the Late Models????? That is why You have Excellent Concessions, Beer Sales, Sell Billboards, ADVERTISE......



I know it sounds easy, but these are tough times. For one thing, I would say average pit passes per LM are around 2.8. Also, you are leaving out the $10,000 per night it costs just to open the gate. (Insurance, Labor, etc) I actually have 32 different cost per night in my budget. Thats another 667 in the front gate (if they all pay full price) This was the hardest year I have ever had selling West Coast Late Model races to a promoter.

I dont know where the rest of the SWDRA races will be this year, but my suggestion is that Cocopah on October 6th, be a SWDRA point race. $2,000 to win and $400 to start!

Dont give up on your Arizona promoters yet. Give it time. They will get it worked out. First thing SWDRA needs is a leader. Its a lot more work, $, and headache than most realize.
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #11 - 01/09/12 at 7:24am
 
I agree w/ Chris.  Hopefully time will be the cure-all for everyone.  I do know that no one person supports late models f in AZ than Benji.  He is a true late model guy and I'm sure will do everything possible to make it happen for the racers and fans.  That is, if it's financially feasible to do.  We must not forget, this is Benji and Kevin's job! It's how they make their living.  So if at the end of the day, they can not feed their families w/ the choices that they make, then we can't blame them for not doing it.

And I also agree, promoting/organizing for racers seems to me to be the most thank-less position in the world Sad
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #12 - 01/09/12 at 8:00am
 
Scott,

"However, I'm not quite sure what me personally, or Pushin, or Phx can do.  I do talk to Benji quite often and most definitely will be this weekend, but that's not saying much."

Look at another site, with all the Change in the Middle East (just an example, I know Very Big Apples to Oranges scenario). But the POWER OF THE PEOPLE is HUGE in THIS Country & Around the World. If People that are Close AND Talk to Benji, as Well as EVERYDAY LATE MODEL FANS, Convey to Him & Kevin How Much they REALLY, REALLY, Enjoy watching the Late Models Race.....You Never Know......They Just Might Listen to THEIR Fans (Customers). Benji & Kevin are "Their Own Men". They are GOOD for Racing  in Arizona.....Late Models Would Just Like to Be Part of it!! Kelly Boen once Told me, You guys are Lucky to Have Tracks in "Your Own Back Yard" to Race at. He said that He would have to travel 8-10 Hrs to race......Be a Shame if We Did NOT Have Races in our Own Back Yard!!

When I Mentioned You Three Guys; You Guys are Mostly Positive, You Post Often and You ALL seems to Be intertwined with the Racing Community......this is What I meant.....the Power of the People....NEVER Under Estimate IT!! Thank You in Advance for Any & Everything that You Guys are Able to Do!!

Bruce 22B
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #13 - 01/09/12 at 8:16am
 
Bruce,

I agree, the "power of the people" can be extremely persuasive.  I will most certainly be purveying my opinions to Benji over the weekend.  As a die hard late model junkie, I would absolutely hate if I only got to see them race once or twice a year or had to travel great distances to do so.  Would be very disappointing, but I'd probably do it.  

However, and this in not to be negative, but rather realistic.  Fans like myself, Pushin and Phx attend races.  I attend late model races before all else, but when they are not happening, then I attend others.  But regardless, I am always attending races.  Nearly every weekend of the year.  And I assume that Pushin and Phx are the same??? I could be wrong.  I am a race fan and a racer myself so I understand your predicament! It's not us sorts of fans that need to convince (apologize if this is not the word I'm looking for) promoters to have races.  We're going to go anyway.  The promoters need to see the results (i.e. butts in the seats).  

Hopefully this weekend will do just that, show Benji and Kevin that there is a viable fan base here in AZ for the late models.  I know that I really hate to see any class of racing fall on hard times, let alone the best one to watch!!!!

- Scott
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #14 - 01/09/12 at 8:35am
 
Chris,

You "Walk the Walk" & "Talk the Talk" Every Racing Season!! I as well as a Number of People on this Board and in the Racing Community have a Tremendous Amount of Respect for You!

I DEFINITELY do Not want to Dispute the Numbers or the Costs with You.....BUT, (I know that word), My family Owns a Race Track in NM. They ran it for Several Years, don't Now, because Car Counts dont make sense.

Sprint Cars & Late Model Shows Would Come to Town, Grand Stands Would Seat about a 1/3 of what Tucson Seats and the Stands Would Be Packed!! My Brothers Would Sell all of Their Billboards at the Beginning of the Season ($400 each....I know Cheap...Price). They Had the BEST RACE TRACK FOOD in the SW!! Burritos for $2-$3; Hamburgers for $3; Sodas for $1 (took care of their customers...the fans). I can Tell you from Experience, Even with the $10,000 the Winged Sprints (Calvin Landis Won One or Two of the Sprint Races) Purse Commanded, They Made a Couple Thousand Dollar PROFIT on THOSE weekends (and only with 3 Support classes with a combined 30-40 Car count)!!

On Weekly Races; It is a small town; 18,000 population. Super Stocks would have about 6-10 cars; Factory Stocks would have about 15-20 Cars; Limited Late Models would Have about 4-8 Cars. Pay to win in the Factories was about $75 to $100 (my brother paid every driver a minimum of $25 to last place); Super Stocks Paid $300 to win, $200 for 2nd; $100 for 3rd; $75 & $50 the rest of the Pack (I remember Very vividly because this was the class that I raced in). Limited Lates; Pay was $500 to win not sure on the rest of the breakdown, but every Limited late got $50 minimum......oh by the way, the Pit passes were $12.

On these weekly shows, Because of CAR COUNTS, My brothers would make enough to pay for the Mortgage on the Track, Fuel for the Generator & Pay a Few of the Employees (we all know most are volunteers & THANK GOD FOR ALL OF THEM!!).

Man, If They Could Get Car Counts Like 20-40 Modifieds; 18-25 Late Models; 30-40 Bombers / Factories.....They Could Make some REAL MONEY!!

Chris, I KNOW Times are Tough in this Economy. Every Track Owner / Promoter DESERVES to MAKE A PROFIT. But What REALLY CHAPS MY A$$ is When I Hear that the Late Models Don't at Least Pay for Their PURSE......BS, BS, BS!!

Chris, Hopefully We WILL Have Some AZ Races, Lets Me & You Walk the Pits & Count People Per Late Model (I mean this Positively, not To Match Wits or Disrespect you in any way). I Cannot & WILL Not Dispute the 2.8 Average that You Mention, But I Know the 37 has 5 People every weekend; 22B (Me) 4-6 People; 51 8-10 People; 5 (Manka) at least 5, maybe  as many as 7 or 8; 5N (Noyes) 5-6 minimum; 8 (parker) 4-6.......Check around THESE NUMBERS are NOT INFLATED!!.
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #15 - 01/09/12 at 8:57am
 
Scott,

Yes I realize All of You Guys are Racers at Heart! If One Class is Not There, You Will Find Others to Go to. However, I Do THANK You GUYS Again for Supporting the Late Models!!

"We must not forget, this is Benji and Kevin's job! It's how they make their living."

I would NEVER Begrudge this.....It is a Business for Them!!

Benji Does an AWESOME JOB Promoting the WWS!! Races are Exciting; Great Drivers; Track Preparation is 2nd to None; Races are Run Efficiently......But MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT......IF Benji Were Not Making a PRETTY GOOD PROFIT......He Would NOT BE DOING IT.....PERIOD!!
Yes, I Also Know (from my brothers experience) it is a VERY THANKLESS Position!!

"I do know that no one person supports late models f in AZ than Benji."

WWS, Hands Down Agree with You 100%!!!! Local AZ Late Models.....NOT So Much!! Time Will Tell, Give it Time......We are Preparing Our car to Be Ready by Mid February.....No Matter What.

Picking Up & Dynoing My Engine on 1/17/11; Have all pieces except New Body, Graphics & Tires......New Driving Suit; Crew Shirts; Traveling Rig.....Man I can't wait to Race Somewhere in 2012!! Hopefully AZ, but maybe CLMA a Couple of Races, Vacation in Santa Cruz (Santa Maria is Only 3 Hrs away); Maybe Bakersfield Once or Twice; Las Cruces & El Paso.

Thank You All for Allowing Me to Rant!! Pushin, I tried to be as Positive as Possible  ; )     LOL

Bruce 22B
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #16 - 01/09/12 at 3:25pm
 
Bruce,

I'm glad to hear that you're readying your equipment for the year.  I am doing the same w/ mine, even though our 2 clubs are currently hashing out issues as well (SW Modlites and AZ modlites).  I'm not sure where we'll be racing, or even how often.  But I can assure you, that whereever and whenever it is, I'll be there.  Hold on to hope.  You have a great group of racers (that I assume want to race) and a VERY loyal group of fans that want to see ya'll run!

I'm young, but one thing I've learned thus far in life is that things usually tend to work themselves out sooner than later.

In the mean time, Monday is almost over and I only have 3 more days to work before I head to Tucson!!!!!!!!!!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #17 - 01/09/12 at 3:43pm
 
As I look at racing all over the country, local racing in particular has been in a downward cycle over the past few years. I guess it's not that surprising given what has been going on economically, but even areas that are late model friendly, local tracks have been dropping them as a weekly division and going to special events only. Their crowds and car counts have been down forcing a lot of track owners to make the change. There have been a lot of huge crowds at those special events but people in general are frequenting their local tracks less.

Having said that we all know late models don't run any tracks weekly and I would consider them a special event. The issue becomes while there are fans who follow late models around to the different tracks, there does not seem to be enough of them to see a significant increase at the ticket window. Further complicating the issue is the late models because of the purse usually are interchangeable with either Mods or Sprints (tracks run one of the three, very rarely two of them together) so the loss in fans (sprints and mods have larger devoted followings) there is a blow. Given that weekly attendance is already down, and fixed costs are what they are, it's harder to make it when you do have a late model event.

Now it becomes, does a track want to run two premier classes more frequently on the same night, essentially doubling the purse they have to pay out? I've noticed that those types of events seem to be a bigger draw in terms of fan count, but that's a pretty big risk and could cripple a track if they swing and miss on that a few times. Sponsorship are tight, it's a delicate balance to find the right ticket price, concession prices, and pit pass price to maximize revenue & sales.

Where I grew up my weekly tracks were always Street Stocks, Super Stocks, Mods, and LM's and honestly they are all still in business running that way. Now those tracks are in smaller towns with a lot less competition for everyone's entertainment dollar so it might be apples to oranges in this case.

With all that being said I have to agree with Bruce that if I was Joey & Total Seal I wouldn't continually bang my head off a brick wall either if the tracks (unfortunately) don't what to schedule LM races. I don't know what the group was requesting, I don't know what the tracks proposed, but you'd think a happy medium could be found. There are a couple of things in racing that I think will always ring true, it's political, backstabbing, and thankless. That's not a darn-nation on anyone, it's the same no matter where you go, there are a million examples around the country. Those things I think more than anything else are what drivers promoters, race directors, series directors, etc. right out of the sport.

I was hoping that the LM's in Arizona had reached stability and growth after a few years of turmoil, and maybe they still will. Like I said, it is a tough group to lead, there are a lot of factors working against you. Maybe just having unsanctioned races in the answer? Maybe tracks would be more receptive to something like that? Maybe the tracks work together to put together a series, pool the monies for a points fund? Just throwing out ideas...and no I don't want the job!  Smiley

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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #18 - 01/09/12 at 6:32pm
 
Nice post... I agree with a lot of what you said about local tracks having problems with pulling in the fans. Here in CA, things are a little different. I would never equate what is paid out to the Mods, DLM's and Sprint cars as interchangeable. The King of the West Sprint Car purse is right around $20,000 and a West Coast LMS or WAS race purse is about $14,500, a far cry from what the mods get. You have to look at you are promoting the biggest, baddest sprint cars on the west coast, KoW, and the biggest, baddest DLM's on the west coast, WCLS. I don't know what can be done to help the tracks draw people for these shows...maybe help the track promote the race in different ways...open to suggestions...
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #19 - 01/10/12 at 7:30am
 
Phx21

Excellent Post! Agree with Everything that You Have Said. I Think that Most of the AZ Drivers Would Be Open To Almost Every Option?

We All Would Like to Race 15-20 Times a Season, But if we only raced once a month in AZ for Special Races that would be Fine with Me.

The Only Option that I Hope the Promoters Don't Do is Cut Our Purse.....but having said that Every Option has to be on the Table. Its just that Guys Already Spend $150 to $200 on Fuel & about $120 on Pit Passes, not to Mention Food & Beverages, gas for the Hauler, etc. Right Now we get $175 to start the A Main....Every Bit Helps, but if it is Cut Lower than that, I think Many Guys will Park Their Cars or Sell Them.....the Die Hards Will Still Race......But You Can't Have a Good Show with 8-10 Cars?  

All the Ideas at the End of Your Post, I Personally, Am Open to. For Me, I Do Not Really Care About a Poits Fund....Nice but.....I Just Want to Race in AZ.

On another site, Jonah at ET Responded to a Post that I had Made on Et's Page. In the Post He Seemed Like He is Open to Running the Late Models, but We Have to Have More Than 13 Cars Per Race.....Which is Easily Attainable! We, as AZ Late Model Drivers, Have to Know that We Have Races in 2012 and Then I Think the Guys Will Get Their Cars Ready. If They Don't have the "Copper On Dirt" Hopefull We Can Start in Mid to Late March, So that We Have Good Car Counts.......Like Others Have Said......Time Will Tell......

Hope to See You all at the WWS!!

Bruce 22B  Wink
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sj_valley_dave
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #20 - 01/10/12 at 9:42am
 
Wow, I thought the SWDRA paid a little more than that...Well hopefully you guys will find some places to book you and keep your start money at least where it is now...I'll never forget seeing a statement by Clint Smith and another time by Bill Frye about not really liking to run the 100 lappers anymore, unless the purse is really large as they figured it cost between $15-20 per lap to run a modern Super Dirt Late Model at race speed on a track when you figure in tires, race fuel, laps toward an engine freshening, parts, etc.In their minds it costs them $1,500-$2,000 just to run a 100 lapper...If you bring that down, your looking at $450-600 to race a 30 lap main, and that is not entry or pit passes...  ugh
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Re: Arizona Late Models
Reply #21 - 01/10/12 at 1:00pm
 
I don't know what the purses are for ASCS Sprints over here but the Mod purse I think is close to what a LM purse is. Given it's the same or very close to the same to win, although the start money is probably lower. I guess what I meant more by interchangeable (in addition to the purse) is that most tracks run either Sprints, Mods, or LM's as the headliner class and several other lower divisions. It's very rare to get some combination of the three together.

That's one of the reason the WWSO is so great, Mods and LM's on the same bill!

Also remember someone, I think it was Shane Clanton, saying it cost him $24 or $25 per lap to run the car. In a 100 lap race it's hard to break even. All of those Hava-Tampa shows in the early '90's were 100-lappers paying $10K to win. Now those Lucas and WoO shows are 50-laps, still $10k to win, and there are more of them.
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