Saturday Night Racer - this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.

dscEvents

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #22 - 02/18/13 at 12:36pm

I agree with you Mike about less people on govt assistance is the way to economic recovery. But the best way you get people off govt assistance is to get jobs and hiring to rebound.

This seems to be agreed to by almost everybody. The problem is HOW we create jobs. And Mike you are correct that consumers drive the majority of the economy. But that is not the opinion of the GOP and the conservative media. You say that no one is saying that the rich drive the economy. Obviously you don't watch Fox News, Fox Business, or CNBC or listen to talk radio. Every one of their pundits say that the rich drive the economy. Varney, Dobbs, Cavuto, Bolling, Kramer, Santelli, Bartiromo, Willis, Meagan Kelly, Doocy, et al all have the same opinion. It's their basis for eliminating the capital gains tax, lowering income tax for the wealthy, eliminating corporate taxes, and every other supply-side policy they promote.

They say if you tax at the top it will hurt job creation because the wealthy create jobs when they have extra money to burn. But the evidence is actually the opposite. As the wealth of the nation has been increasing at the top and declining at the bottom job growth has been awful. If increased wealth at the top creates jobs then we should have the most robust job creation of all time. But we don't.

That's because conservative pundits confuse hiring with job creation. While the wealthy do a lot of hiring, they don't hire unless there is consumer demand to justify hiring. I also learned from several billionaires at the Wall Street Journal ECO-nomics retreat in Santa Barbara last year that tax rates are a non-issue when deciding to invest. The primary reason to invest is to make money. George Roberts of Kohlberg, Kravis, and Roberts (google him) said the difference in paying 36% as opposed to 39% makes no difference in evaluating an investment. (He also admitted that no one pays those actual rates anyway) They are gonna make loads of cash regardless of the tax rates. (I will be returning to the conference next month at the Bacara Resort in SB to hopefully learn even more).

The way to get consumer spending back to the spending levels that once drove a healthy economy is for more of the increasing corporate profits to be shared by the workers who produce those profits for their bosses. Over the past 30 years the bosses have had their share of the profits dramatically increase while the workers share has decreased. And that has had the worst effect on consumer spending and the economy.

And Duane, the example of your rich friends spending as opposed to yours proves nothing. Because for each and every rich person that "spends more in a month playing" there are hundreds of thousands of people that spend every dime they make to just survive. And their buying power easily outweighs the spending of a single rich person.

Also, you are wrong about the minimum wage. Studies show that when the minimum wage is increased that it almost always results in a jump in consumer spending and the result of increased consumer spending is job growth. Adjusted for inflation the minimum wage is at record lows and that has not spurred job growth.

I think the best thing we can do for the economy is to deal in facts and not supposition.

And no need to bet to get me out for a bowl of crab bisque, Mike. I may lose on purpose just for an excuse to head to Pismo for a bowl with you and your beautiful wife. Wink

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mudslinger47

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #23 - 02/18/13 at 4:32pm

dscEvents wrote on 02/18/13 at 12:36pm:

I agree with you Mike about less people on govt assistance is the way to economic recovery. But the best way you get people off govt assistance is to get jobs and hiring to rebound.

This seems to be agreed to by almost everybody. The problem is HOW we create jobs. And Mike you are correct that consumers drive the majority of the economy. But that is not the opinion of the GOP and the conservative media. You say that no one is saying that the rich drive the economy. Obviously you don't watch Fox News, Fox Business, or CNBC or listen to talk radio. Every one of their pundits say that the rich drive the economy. Varney, Dobbs, Cavuto, Bolling, Kramer, Santelli, Bartiromo, Willis, Meagan Kelly, Doocy, et al all have the same opinion. It's their basis for eliminating the capital gains tax, lowering income tax for the wealthy, eliminating corporate taxes, and every other supply-side policy they promote.

They say if you tax at the top it will hurt job creation because the wealthy create jobs when they have extra money to burn. But the evidence is actually the opposite. As the wealth of the nation has been increasing at the top and declining at the bottom job growth has been awful. If increased wealth at the top creates jobs then we should have the most robust job creation of all time. But we don't.

That's because conservative pundits confuse hiring with job creation. While the wealthy do a lot of hiring, they don't hire unless there is consumer demand to justify hiring.

well theres a no chit moment

I also learned from several billionaires at the Wall Street Journal ECO-nomics retreat in Santa Barbara last year that tax rates are a non-issue when deciding to invest. The primary reason to invest is to make money. George Roberts of Kohlberg, Kravis, and Roberts (google him) said the difference in paying 36% as opposed to 39% makes no difference in evaluating an investment. (He also admitted that no one pays those actual rates anyway) They are gonna make loads of cash regardless of the tax rates. (I will be returning to the conference next month at the Bacara Resort in SB to hopefully learn even more).

The way to get consumer spending back to the spending levels that once drove a healthy economy is for more of the increasing corporate profits to be shared by the workers who produce those profits for their bosses. Over the past 30 years the bosses have had their share of the profits dramatically increase while the workers share has decreased. And that has had the worst effect on consumer spending and the economy.

And Duane, the example of your rich friends spending as opposed to yours proves nothing. Because for each and every rich person that "spends more in a month playing" there are hundreds of thousands of people that spend every dime they make to just survive. And their buying power easily outweighs the spending of a single rich person.

Also, you are wrong about the minimum wage. Studies show that when the minimum wage is increased that it almost always results in a jump in consumer spending and the result of increased consumer spending is job growth. Adjusted for inflation the minimum wage is at record lows and that has not spurred job growth.

I think the best thing we can do for the economy is to deal in facts and not supposition.

And no need to bet to get me out for a bowl of crab bisque, Mike. I may lose on purpose just for an excuse to head to Pismo for a bowl with you and your beautiful wife. Wink

Hmm right out of the Democrap hand book... Wink

I have been told that the raising of the minimum wage does nothing for the poor its supposed to help but generally helps the Union scale people because their wages are based on min to union scale in a percentage. I don't recall all the workings and I cant remember where I read it. I'll try to find it.

I don't doubt the billionares assumation, but most of the small business aren't billionares, their dam luck to be hundredares these days

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Dietzsch_Racing25

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #24 - 02/18/13 at 4:34pm

dscEvents wrote on 02/18/13 at 12:36pm:

But that is not the opinion of the GOP and the conservative media. You say that no one is saying that the rich drive the economy. Obviously you don't watch Fox News, Fox Business, or CNBC or listen to talk radio. Every one of their pundits say that the rich drive the economy. Varney, Dobbs, Cavuto, Bolling, Kramer, Santelli, Bartiromo, Willis, Meagan Kelly, Doocy, et al all have the same opinion. It's their basis for eliminating the capital gains tax, lowering income tax for the wealthy, eliminating corporate taxes, and every other supply-side policy they promote.

They say if you tax at the top it will hurt job creation because the wealthy create jobs when they have extra money to burn. But the evidence is actually the opposite. As the wealth of the nation has been increasing at the top and declining at the bottom job growth has been awful. If increased wealth at the top creates jobs then we should have the most robust job creation of all time. But we don't.

I do watch fox news and listen to talk radio and somehow I come away with a different understanding of what the GOP thinks. It seems to me that the GOP message (based on what I see and hear) is more in line with what FASTMIKE is saying, rather than what you are stating.

It seems to me that we have had robust job creation and a consistantly low unemployement rate for the last 30+ years (last four years excluded). However, there are many factors that determine the health of an economy. Is it possible that something other than rich people keeping most of their money is the cause of current state.

... government regulations that essentially required (allows) banks to give loans to people that couldn't afford them .

...stiffling requlations that stop small business from growing or even staying afloat.

...saving institutions that are "too big to fail" and rewarding those in charge no matter how risky their actions were.

...spending more than you take in year after year.

IMO the rich people didn't cause this, the government did.

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FASTMIKE

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #25 - 02/19/13 at 6:15am

dscEvents wrote on 02/18/13 at 12:36pm:

I agree with you Mike about less people on govt assistance is the way to economic recovery. But the best way you get people off govt assistance is to get jobs and hiring to rebound.

This seems to be agreed to by almost everybody. The problem is HOW we create jobs. And Mike you are correct that consumers drive the majority of the economy. But that is not the opinion of the GOP and the conservative media. You say that no one is saying that the rich drive the economy. Obviously you don't watch Fox News, Fox Business, or CNBC or listen to talk radio. Every one of their pundits say that the rich drive the economy. Varney, Dobbs, Cavuto, Bolling, Kramer, Santelli, Bartiromo, Willis, Meagan Kelly, Doocy, et al all have the same opinion. It's their basis for eliminating the capital gains tax, lowering income tax for the wealthy, eliminating corporate taxes, and every other supply-side policy they promote.

They say if you tax at the top it will hurt job creation because the wealthy create jobs when they have extra money to burn. But the evidence is actually the opposite. As the wealth of the nation has been increasing at the top and declining at the bottom job growth has been awful. If increased wealth at the top creates jobs then we should have the most robust job creation of all time. But we don't.

That's because conservative pundits confuse hiring with job creation. While the wealthy do a lot of hiring, they don't hire unless there is consumer demand to justify hiring. I also learned from several billionaires at the Wall Street Journal ECO-nomics retreat in Santa Barbara last year that tax rates are a non-issue when deciding to invest. The primary reason to invest is to make money. George Roberts of Kohlberg, Kravis, and Roberts (google him) said the difference in paying 36% as opposed to 39% makes no difference in evaluating an investment. (He also admitted that no one pays those actual rates anyway) They are gonna make loads of cash regardless of the tax rates. (I will be returning to the conference next month at the Bacara Resort in SB to hopefully learn even more).

The way to get consumer spending back to the spending levels that once drove a healthy economy is for more of the increasing corporate profits to be shared by the workers who produce those profits for their bosses. Over the past 30 years the bosses have had their share of the profits dramatically increase while the workers share has decreased. And that has had the worst effect on consumer spending and the economy.

And Duane, the example of your rich friends spending as opposed to yours proves nothing. Because for each and every rich person that "spends more in a month playing" there are hundreds of thousands of people that spend every dime they make to just survive. And their buying power easily outweighs the spending of a single rich person.

Also, you are wrong about the minimum wage. Studies show that when the minimum wage is increased that it almost always results in a jump in consumer spending and the result of increased consumer spending is job growth. Adjusted for inflation the minimum wage is at record lows and that has not spurred job growth.

I think the best thing we can do for the economy is to deal in facts and not supposition.

And no need to bet to get me out for a bowl of crab bisque, Mike. I may lose on purpose just for an excuse to head to Pismo for a bowl with you and your beautiful wife. Wink

1. "the question is HOW" - change in policies that have driven all of our mfg out of the country.this will balance an unbalanced economy from 70/30 to 40/60 and maybe we as a country would start to save more. PRODUCTIVITY in terms of manufacturing SOMETHING will solve our problems along with CUTTING THE SIZE/SPENDING OF OUR OUT OF CONTROL GOVT SYSTEM THAT TAKES IN TOO LARGE OF A PROPORTION IN COMPARISON TO WHAT IT GIVES BACK.

2. "your beautiful wife" - i am glad we have some COMMON GROUND!!!!!!!

3. HOW CAN I ATTEND THAT CONFERENCE WITH YOU?

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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #26 - 02/20/13 at 5:59am http://finance.yahoo.com/news/njs-newest-casino-revel-file-005235068.html really.....a casino not making it...lol
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mudslinger47

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #27 - 02/20/13 at 6:17pm

Their not the only casinos hurting Mike, Vegas is said to have a few that are in dyer straights. Actually all these little Indian Casinos dotting the countryside have got to be putting a big hurt on Vegas. I'm not a gambler, but if I was, 30 minutes sounds a heck of a lot better the 7 hrs on the road....

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Wooliebuger1

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #28 - 02/21/13 at 9:58am

Things with the big casino's in Vegas are not normal, I have a son who lives in Henderson, and a niece and nephew in Vegas, both of them are unemployed, and try and find a decent job in Vegas is just about impossible. All 3 have said several of the big Casino's are not using floors, or wings of their rooms, and other areas, and are working employees on a limited work schedule. yes 30 minutes to our local casino does sound much better, but it is hard to compair to the big lights of Vegas, especially around the freemont street where you have all those neat things going on under the canapee(sp)...yes it tuff all over, and dont expect it to get a lot better in the next few years....Those who are working in jobs should feel very fortunate or lucky, but lets see what happens with theis up and coming 1st of March...JMOO...Don

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dscEvents

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #29 - 02/21/13 at 8:16pm

Wow. A lot to respond to. Should have checked post earlier. lol

First to Duane. You should know me well enough by now to know I am not in the habit of repeating talking points from any party. My observations about the effect of the minimum wage are just that, observations. I remind you that we have created and raised the minimum wage both nationally and in individual states many times so there is an abundance of data out there as to the results. Most studies that I have read show no rise in unemployment after an increase in minimum wage. And in the studies that do find increases in unemployment, each one is a study of an area with a special unrelated circumstance like when one major employer shuts down in a small demographic.

I tracked down two of the many studies I have found over the years. One is very well researched and the other is pretty well researched, but not as scientifically linked. Nonetheless, both have data that pretty much prove their case. Add these to a number of other individual state studies that find the same thing and the evidence is pretty convincing regardless of what you "have been told" by some unknown or forgotten source.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf

And Dietzsch, I actually agree with you on the lack of banking regulation that allowed mortgage brokers to give loans to unqualified buyers. The invention of mortgage-backed securities offloaded the risk away from the brokers who approved the loans. The fees paid to those brokers was easy money. That was the incentive to look the other way to get the loan pushed through. No risk to the broker, but big reward. "Too Big To Fail" is still a problem. But that was also a result of lowered standards and the deregulation of banking laws that eliminated risk as an incentive for bank CEO's to do due diligence. You are absolutely right that those in charge of banks took risks that they didn't have to back up because they knew they would be bailed out by taxpayers and could still keep their jobs. I say break up the big banks and reimpose the prohibition of investment banking from consumer banks like after the Great Depression. Increase how much capital banks have to have in reserve to back their investments. But remember it's the GOP that advocates for low or no regulations in the financial sector (or any sector for that matter). I'm not sure what you were trying to say about Fox and talk radio. If you are trying to say that Fox News and talk radio are not advocating supply-side economics then I don't really understand how you come to that conclusion. Fox News and the entire conservative media have been the biggest cheerleaders of supply-side economics since their inception. They don't deny it. They are proud of it.

And Mike,

1) I agree with you that bringing back manufacturing to the US would greatly help the economy. But the problem is that the incentive to move manufacturing off shore has mostly to do with cheap labor and the tax deductions that were given to companies who moved off shore . We should not be lowering US wages to compete with Chinese slave wages. We should be taxing imports made with slave labor to eliminate the price advantage they have over US labor. And I have also said before that I am for cutting spending. But let's get job growth going and increase revenues with more taxpaying workers and start cutting more and more as the economy and revenue recover.

2) And we also have in common our opinion on the crab bisque at Cracked Crab.

3) Mike, I wish you could go with me to the WSJ ECO-nomics 2013. I think you would really appreciate the venue and the information shared. It's great to hear millionaires and billionaires share their thoughts without the national press around. BTW, the only reason I am there is because I work for the company that does all the video, sound, and lighting. But I always keep my ears open for anything that can teach me more about any subject. The amazing thing is how little their comments line up with conservative talking points about business and government. I was amazed (but not too much) to learn that tax rates aren't much of a factor in deciding on investments by the vast majority of movers and shakers. I wish Lou Dobbs or Stuart Varney would play some of the comments from this conference on their Fox shows. But they never do because they know it would interfere with the Fox agenda.

Don't get me wrong, you will hear supply-side arguments along side other theories. But what is most valuable are the comments that come from their experiences. Most of the people in this room built wealth not believing what others tell them, but instead researching what works and what doesn't. I remember one conservative CEO joking not to tell Rush Limbaugh how the CEO was describing a certain successful investment because the CEO had used government resources to aid in research of a certain process that had increased his profit. He didn't want to contradict Rush about how the government isn't good for anything. Rush's head probably would have exploded listening to this CEO praising the National Academy of Science for it's top-notch research.

But if you would like a taste of last years conference here is a link to just a few segments from a three day event. BTW, I am on the back camera on the right center of room shooting the speakers.

http://economics.wsj.com/videos

Let me know what you think Mike. I am always interested in your opinion on this kind of stuff.

dsc

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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #30 - 02/22/13 at 5:57am 1. you will not get the job market going without doing something about the movement of jobs off shore....either tariffs or incentivize the mfg to come back... 2. Ok so 2 items of common ground! 3. I like the diversity of opinion there.Does the ticket price include a roomat the Bacara?
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dscEvents

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #31 - 02/22/13 at 12:15pm

Mike, looks like we agree about manufacturing and tariffs...and crab bisque.

The conference does not include the room at the Bacara. But you can get a conference rate of $390 per night. I always end up at Motel 6 or the Holiday Inn. lol

I bet as a business owner you might be able to snag an invite. I'm sure the $4000 investment would pay off.

dsc

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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #32 - 02/22/13 at 2:52pm 4k + 400 a night x 2 + food costs.....I would rather invest in racing.....lol how do i get a copy of your video???????
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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #33 - 02/23/13 at 5:50am not these guys too?????????? relax all is well.....lol http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/8028d9f6-7d07-11e2-8bd7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2Lj...
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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #34 - 02/24/13 at 1:31pm didnt he say the target was the rich.....??? looks like he is either a dumbshiot or a liar.....or maybe both! lol http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2013/0222/Why-is-Wal-Mart-worried-Payroll-tax-...
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mudslinger47

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #35 - 02/24/13 at 5:20pm

The second study wouldn't load but the first one in the conclusions, stated that the minimum wage increase yielded little or no affect because they could make it up by not paying the skilled workers better.... Seriously? The also made the point of with a better minimum wage, employees might stay longer which would cut the labor costs of retraining. I know from first hand experience, that is not true. Money at that end of the spectrum doesn't buy loyalty.

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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #36 - 02/24/13 at 6:29pm the first was anannouncment from Abercrombie and Fitch will be closing 50 stores...lol
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dscEvents

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #37 - 02/25/13 at 2:11am

FASTMIKE wrote on 02/22/13 at 2:52pm:

4k + 400 a night x 2 + food costs.....I would rather invest in racing.....lol

how do i get a copy of your video???????

But if you can learn something to make millions like these guys then you can spend even more on racing. I say "spend" instead of "invest" because we all know you don't invest in racing to make money. lol.

I wish I could get you the video. We tape hours and hours of discussions, but they only release clips on the Wall Street Journal website. Maybe we can have lunch after the conference is over. I am willing to reveal all I can remember for the price of a bowl of crab bisque. But bring your wife so I can look at her while talking to you! Wink

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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #38 - 02/25/13 at 5:51am lol! I have beed told to put the Bacara on my list of Hotels to stay at with her so maybe next year. i will be over there in April and will let you know the dates to try and arrange that ooggling.....lol!
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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #39 - 02/28/13 at 6:03am http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-economy-grew-01-in-fourth-quarter-2013-02-28... hola....como estas? oh but it is getting better.....
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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #40 - 03/08/13 at 12:32pm http://cnsnews.com/news/article/record-89304000-americans-not-labor-force-296000... lol.....when will it stop at 1/3 of the population?
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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #41 - 03/13/13 at 6:44am http://www.moneynews.com/MKTNews/billionaires-dump-economist-stock/2012/08/29/id... if you only read on sentence make it the first sentence of the third paragraph.....it is all about US folks.....our dollars make this economy what it is because we dont MAKE ANYTHINY ANY LONGER....
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mudslinger47

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Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though.
Reply #42 - 03/13/13 at 7:34am

In the latest filing for Buffett’s holding company Berkshire Hathaway, Buffett has been drastically reducing his exposure to stocks that depend on consumer purchasing habits. Berkshire sold roughly 19 million shares of Johnson & Johnson, and reduced his overall stake in “consumer product stocks” by 21%. Berkshire Hathaway also sold its entire stake in California-based computer parts supplier Intel.

Not that I blame Buffet for what he's doing, but this shows hypocrisy goes up to the top....

We got some tough times coming...

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FASTMIKE LMR God Offline CALL US FIRST FIX IT FAST Posts: 3471	Re: this # will get worse in 60 days...no worries all is well though. Reply #43 - 04/09/13 at 9:39am http://news.yahoo.com/trouble-lurking-walmart-empty-shelves-094537542--finance.h... guess i missed it by 10 days....lol
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